This was really in-depth! As always you guys do such a great job approaching this topic. I subscribed to that youtube channel I hope she posts more, I enjoyed her as a host very much!
Thank you!! Really appreciate this, Jake was especially in the zone lol. And yeah I think you'll love her channel! She's a civil liberties lawyer so she gets deeper into the legal side of certain issues, like vaccine mandates!
The right definitely is very narrow minded and dogmatic when it comes to this issue. You guys showed that perfectly! There is room for ALL of Adam and Eve’s descendants in the holy land! I am a Christian Zionist and I believe that the Jews and the Palestinians being brought together on this land was no coincidence. They were brought together because God intended it that way. He gave it to them BOTH to share and live together in peace and prosperity alongside each other as a model for all the world for how human beings can resolve our differences. Well, I’ve been slacking on my mental health break from social media. See you all soon!
Thank you for watching Noah!! I'm going to respond to your other thoughtful comments when I have a little more time to give a longer answer. You brought up some great points to expand on!
And this sentiment is beautiful, I would love exactly this for ALL people everywhere.
Now I will get into areas where I disagree with you guys to differing degrees. I do believe Israel is the vanguard of western civilization and that they protect the rest of the West from Islamism and that they are a sterling example of western values such as democracy, freedom of speech, pluralism, freedom of religion, freedom of the press, diversity & inclusion, etc. But I would agree with you guys that this war is not ONLY about that. It is also about an over 70-year-old conflict between two indigenous peoples both struggling for self-determination. I also would not characterize Israel as an ethno-state. This is for three reasons: 1. Jews are a very heterogenous bunch. In Israel you will find white, black, brown, red, and yellow Jews as well as all different sects of Judaism. 2. Millions of non-Jews live in Israel including its two million Arab citizens who have full equal rights. 3. The founding fathers of Israel always envisioned it as a state for Jews and non-Jews. Israel is a Jewish AND a multicultural state. I see Zionism not as an ideology pushing ethnic exclusivity but rather as the Jewish civil rights movement. Allowing Jews to have the right to self-determination just like any other people. I see Zionism as an inclusive movement that is completely compatible with Palestinian self-determination and other movements for equality and justice. I also wanted to make clear I fully acknowledge the atrocities committed at Deir Yassin in 1948 and condemn war crimes by Arabs or Jews in the War of Independence! I also definitely don’t think all Palestinians support Hamas or Islamism.
A phenomenal discussion guys! I didn’t get to listen to all of it as I unfortunately did not have time to. But I listened to enough of it to get a good understanding of what you guys were trying to argue. A fascinating podcast indeed! I will break down where I agree and disagree with you guys. I would agree that this issue causes a great deal of tribalism and group think. I’ve witnessed it myself on social media many times. Zionists are no different in this regard. Also, it is definitely unfair to paint all anti-Zionists with a broad brush as all being antisemitic or terrorist supporters. I know from experience that anti-Zionists are not a monolith just like any other group. They are liberals, conservatives, libertarians, socialists, communists, anarchists, men, women, white, black, Arab, Jew, etc. Not all are antisemitic, and many condemn Hamas and October 7th. I also agree the United States should not support Israel uncritically. I am a Christian Zionist and I support Israel but am also not afraid to criticize Israeli government policy when it is warranted. Let me give a few examples. I believe the 2019 Nation State Law passed by the Knesset should include a clause affirming the equality of all Israelis before the law, Arabic should be restored as an official language of the state, and it should be ensured future housing developments should not be limited to Jewish neighborhoods. I believe the Israeli government needs to invest much more in the Arab Sector in several areas and do more to deal with the wave of crime and violence against women in Arab communities. I strongly opposed the deportation of dozens of Black Hebrew Israelites by the Israeli government. I am a proponent of legalizing gay marriage and interfaith marriage in the country. I strongly oppose the expansion of settlements in the West Bank. I think Israel sometimes goes too far in response to Palestinian terrorism. Lastly, I would like to see greater representation for women in the Knesset. I am a strong advocate for women, Arabs, blacks, LGBTQ+ people, foreign workers, and disabled people in Israel.
This was really in-depth! As always you guys do such a great job approaching this topic. I subscribed to that youtube channel I hope she posts more, I enjoyed her as a host very much!
Thank you!! Really appreciate this, Jake was especially in the zone lol. And yeah I think you'll love her channel! She's a civil liberties lawyer so she gets deeper into the legal side of certain issues, like vaccine mandates!
The right definitely is very narrow minded and dogmatic when it comes to this issue. You guys showed that perfectly! There is room for ALL of Adam and Eve’s descendants in the holy land! I am a Christian Zionist and I believe that the Jews and the Palestinians being brought together on this land was no coincidence. They were brought together because God intended it that way. He gave it to them BOTH to share and live together in peace and prosperity alongside each other as a model for all the world for how human beings can resolve our differences. Well, I’ve been slacking on my mental health break from social media. See you all soon!
Thank you for watching Noah!! I'm going to respond to your other thoughtful comments when I have a little more time to give a longer answer. You brought up some great points to expand on!
And this sentiment is beautiful, I would love exactly this for ALL people everywhere.
Now I will get into areas where I disagree with you guys to differing degrees. I do believe Israel is the vanguard of western civilization and that they protect the rest of the West from Islamism and that they are a sterling example of western values such as democracy, freedom of speech, pluralism, freedom of religion, freedom of the press, diversity & inclusion, etc. But I would agree with you guys that this war is not ONLY about that. It is also about an over 70-year-old conflict between two indigenous peoples both struggling for self-determination. I also would not characterize Israel as an ethno-state. This is for three reasons: 1. Jews are a very heterogenous bunch. In Israel you will find white, black, brown, red, and yellow Jews as well as all different sects of Judaism. 2. Millions of non-Jews live in Israel including its two million Arab citizens who have full equal rights. 3. The founding fathers of Israel always envisioned it as a state for Jews and non-Jews. Israel is a Jewish AND a multicultural state. I see Zionism not as an ideology pushing ethnic exclusivity but rather as the Jewish civil rights movement. Allowing Jews to have the right to self-determination just like any other people. I see Zionism as an inclusive movement that is completely compatible with Palestinian self-determination and other movements for equality and justice. I also wanted to make clear I fully acknowledge the atrocities committed at Deir Yassin in 1948 and condemn war crimes by Arabs or Jews in the War of Independence! I also definitely don’t think all Palestinians support Hamas or Islamism.
A phenomenal discussion guys! I didn’t get to listen to all of it as I unfortunately did not have time to. But I listened to enough of it to get a good understanding of what you guys were trying to argue. A fascinating podcast indeed! I will break down where I agree and disagree with you guys. I would agree that this issue causes a great deal of tribalism and group think. I’ve witnessed it myself on social media many times. Zionists are no different in this regard. Also, it is definitely unfair to paint all anti-Zionists with a broad brush as all being antisemitic or terrorist supporters. I know from experience that anti-Zionists are not a monolith just like any other group. They are liberals, conservatives, libertarians, socialists, communists, anarchists, men, women, white, black, Arab, Jew, etc. Not all are antisemitic, and many condemn Hamas and October 7th. I also agree the United States should not support Israel uncritically. I am a Christian Zionist and I support Israel but am also not afraid to criticize Israeli government policy when it is warranted. Let me give a few examples. I believe the 2019 Nation State Law passed by the Knesset should include a clause affirming the equality of all Israelis before the law, Arabic should be restored as an official language of the state, and it should be ensured future housing developments should not be limited to Jewish neighborhoods. I believe the Israeli government needs to invest much more in the Arab Sector in several areas and do more to deal with the wave of crime and violence against women in Arab communities. I strongly opposed the deportation of dozens of Black Hebrew Israelites by the Israeli government. I am a proponent of legalizing gay marriage and interfaith marriage in the country. I strongly oppose the expansion of settlements in the West Bank. I think Israel sometimes goes too far in response to Palestinian terrorism. Lastly, I would like to see greater representation for women in the Knesset. I am a strong advocate for women, Arabs, blacks, LGBTQ+ people, foreign workers, and disabled people in Israel.